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Jabber for BeOS released!

Filed under the:  department.
Posted by:Ryan on Wednesday, 27 Dec, 2000 @ 1:16 PM
 
Submitted News

Just noticed that Jabber for BeOS has been released on bebits by Rapture in Venice. This is a great app which i have been testing for quite a while… It is currently useful mainly for chatting among jabber users, as the transports are iffy on the server side… but they should be working soon. This is the most stable IM client i have used on BeOS for any system, and I reccommend you all try it. :)



18 Responses to “Jabber for BeOS released!”

  1. Ruprect Says:

    Alright!

    Hey, this looks great! Just how stable is it, Nutcase?

  2. DaaT Says:

    In Response To Ruprect @ 12/28/2000 11:39:57 AM

    Re: Alright!

    VERY stable, crashed once on me, the first time i used it, and that was an old RC. Even that was the only time. I’m sick and tired of GIM-ICQ crashing all the time.. ICQ transports should be working at jabber.org tomorrow (Saturday the latest), so i’ll be finally able to rid myself of GIM-ICQ. Rapture’s done a great job on this.

    Take care,
    DaaT

  3. Nem Says:

    In Response To Billy Kakes @ 12/29/2000 03:13:59 AM

    Re: review?

    My only gripe with Opera is that it never shows all the images on a page, and when it does, they go away when you scroll.

    Asfar as Jabber goes, i bought it and its really great!
    I just need the jabber people to get those transports working… but RIV is really receptive to new ideas and im glad I bought Jabber.

  4. Nimdok Says:

    review?

    How bout it? What all does it offer over other clients? What’s planned for the future? What makes it worth $15?

  5. Rapture In Venice Says:

    In Response To Nimdok @ 12/29/2000 00:40:37 AM

    Re: review?

    Jabber offers stability and flexibility. Stability in that it is an elegantly designed application by an authentic senior developer leveraging a public protocol versus a hacked up client leveraging a stolen protocol. :)

    Jabber also brings focus. With the endless Gim-ICQ beta brigade and (the very likeable) BeAIM existing with differing featuresets, Jabber can add features that will be there to serve you as both your AIM and ICQ client — with of course support for Yahoo and MSN.

    Why is it $15? Good question. The chat clients that Jabber uses, as well as Jabber clients themselves, are mostly all free. Let’s ask why THAT is.

    AOL, ICQ, Yahoo and MSN, while they may *seem* free, are in fact not:

    AOL is ad driven and drives you into their network. They get tons of money for the client, just not from you.

    ICQ is mega loaded with ads and layers upon layers of crap. I haven’t seen such a disaster like the ICQ client from Mirabilis. :)

    Yahoo! drives you into their site. If you’re using the Yahoo! client, you’re using Yahoo! They make there money back in ads for very little sacrifice.

    MSN ditto.

    So, while you don’t pay for these clients directly, you are indirectly. The same old thing: You use free AOL client, Coca-Cola acknowledges the number of eyes AOL draws and pays mucho money for ads. Ads expensive so they charge more for your Coke. Done.

    As for the Jabber clients, they’re mostly free. However, they mostly all suck. :) The ones that don’t suck are few and far between. Most of them were started and never finished. Many that are finished are not supported. The best one, JabberIM it seems, is done by Jabber.com and they make theirs free to drive you in to their business.

    Why did I choose to charge $15? For one, I don’t want this project to die. Just look at all the Be projects that died after release or didn’t make it at all…The developer thought they could work on the app forever, but realized they spent huge amounts of time coding and weren’t getting enough reward. It may not seem like the hacker ethic, but it’s true.

    We have lots of great software companies working on Be. We should be grateful because it’s a VERY small market! Omicronsoft is wonderful! Gobe is a big reason Be is still here. :) I will gladly pay Kenny another $50 for Postmaster 2.0 even though I am technically “entitled” to the free update. Spending $50 is small price to pay to keep Postmaster alive!

    What is $15? Well, I get about that much for not even an hour of professional development work. Yet it took me 6 months to create Jabber for BeOS, spending hours upon hours upon days upon weeks of end-to-end time. It’s a small price. :)

    What do you get for $15? The peace of mind that all of the features you want to see added will come! I’m working on them right now in fact. :) $15 insures that Be WILL have a quality AIM/ICQ/MSN/Yahoo/Jabber app for a long time and it won’t go away.

    Keep in mind that supporting Be development is VERY important. Dreamweaver isn’t on Be yet because there aren’t enough buyers. Same with every other app you want that’s out there. Opera 3.62 may not be Opera’s newest, but we need to show that we will buy their browser otherwise they won’t decide to port Opera 4.0 and 5.0. AND THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANT. Opera 4.0 is IE quality. WE NEED IT. :) if it takes spending $40 to buy 3.62, so be it. Not like 3.62 is a bad browser, it’s very good. :) But ask yourself, would I spend $100 (probably less) for a QUALITY web browser for the BeOS. The answer has to be yes…and don’t expect Mozilla to come anytime soon. :)

    I hope everyone enjoys Jabber. And thank you all for making it the #1 rated Be app on BeBits!!! You all rock!!

  6. Sascha Offe Says:

    In Response To Rapture In Venice @ 12/29/2000 00:57:45 AM

    Re: review?

    Hear, Hear! Well put, RiV.

    In fact, I thing I’m gonna spread the word a bit more and write a nice little review of Jabber in the next days (for DeBUG that is).

    One note on Opera: Am I actually the only on whose machine the ‘Final Relase’ (Trial) crashed constantly (yes, I tried to run it with different settings, etc.)?!

    I really want to support them (in the hope for 4.0), but I’m still hesitating at the moment…

  7. Billy Kakes Says:

    In Response To Sascha Offe @ 12/29/2000 02:52:58 AM

    Re: review?

    No, sadly it crashes on me constantly, too (I can usually use it for about two minutes before a crash). It also has a problem where it will never load certain sites until you hit Stop (like cnn.com). I like Opera a lot when it works, and I fully believe in supporting BeOS software, but I personally can’t justify spending $40 on far-less-than-perfect software. To each his/her own.

  8. Nimdok Says:

    In Response To Rapture In Venice @ 12/29/2000 00:57:45 AM

    Re: review?

    Thanks very much for the quick and detailed response. I’m gonna give the program a lookover as soon as I get back to my home machine.

    I’d still love to see a review…. :)

  9. Mark Gardner Says:

    In Response To Rapture In Venice @ 12/29/2000 00:57:45 AM

    Registered

    Well, I paid my $15, and sent in my suggestions of new features to RIV. One thing that would really improve the program immensely is support for the Jabber User Directory (JUD), which would let users find each other on this otherwise unfamiliar system.

    The other big thing, of course, is finding a server that has stable and working transports to the other IM systems in widespread use. Without that, it’s just yet another IM client that only works with others of its kind, with not much to differentiate it from the other popular systems.

  10. Kart Says:

    Looks great, but there are problems

    I’m not much of an instant-message person, but Jabber seems like a pretty good piece of software. I just have 2 concerns:

    (1) Per http://www.users.qwest.net/~jblanco/about.html, “Rapture In Venice is a software company 100% dedicated to developing free BeOS software.” Doh! Jabber’s not 100% free. Not even 20% free. It costs 15 bucks. If I find it useful I’ll pay for it, though; that’s not the problem. It just doesn’t make sense for RiV to be making lofty claims about “100% free software”–cause it ain’t.

    (2) All Jabber clients depend on Jabber.org to keep their transports up to date. AOL, MSN, ICQ, Yahoo, et. al. often change their protocols without warning. RiV says Jabber is “leveraging a public protocol versus a hacked up client leveraging a stolen protocol.” No, that’s not true. We STILL have to reverse engineer the protocols to make the transports work. Jabber clients are just dependent on the nice folks at Jabber.org to keep the transports working.

  11. Sascha Offe Says:

    In Response To Kart @ 01/03/2001 2:04:33 PM

    Re: Looks great, but there are problems

    One note on transports and other IM-Systems:

    I know that the concept of ‘Transports’ is crucial for Jabber as a whole, otherwise many people wouldn’t even give it a second look and would just stay with ICQ, AIM etc.

    But I personally, don’t care at all for transports; I haven’t used IMs in the past, mostly because they are closed worlds; IMHO, communication [protocols] should be free and open.

    Jabber’s own protocol works well enough; that’s also a reason why I’m able to have my account at jabber.com–one of the main servers that seems to support almost no transport.

    So this: “All Jabber clients depend on Jabber.org to keep their transports up to date.” might be true–but that doesn’t mean that all Jabber _users_ depend on up-to-date-transports ;-)

  12. Cale Says:

    In Response To Rapture In Venice @ 12/29/2000 00:57:45 AM

    Re: review?

    From what I,ve seen so far, I think you’ve earned a reward. $15 is an excellent value!

  13. Kart Says:

    In Response To Sascha Offe @ 01/03/2001 2:49:28 PM

    [No Subject]

    > I haven’t used IMs in the past, mostly because they
    > are closed worlds

    Yet you’re happy using Jabber to communicate ONLY with other Jabber users. That’s a “closed world”.

    Without transports, Jabber is useless. No, it’s not the client app’s fault when the transports break, but considering Jabber for BeOS is the only non-free Jabber client, it ought to contribute towards keeping the Jabber transports working.

    > that doesn’t mean that all Jabber _users_ depend on
    > up-to-date-transports

    No it DOES mean we depend on working transports! Otherwise, we’re stuck in the “closed world” of being able to talk to only other Jabber people. That’s not good.

    For $15 I want to be able to use Jabber as it was meant to be used–to be able to talk to EVERYBODY using ALL the transports.

    IMHO, I think it is critical that Jabber for BeOS should support development of Jabber transports. Otherwise, all you’re “leveraging” is a free ride on the backs of the folks at Jabber.org.

    If all you want is a “closed world”, get BeAIM. It’s free and works pretty well.

  14. Sascha Offe Says:

    In Response To Kart @ 01/04/2001 05:18:21 AM

    Re: [No Subject]

    It’s not so much that I’m happy to communicate only with other Jabber users; it’s rather: I’m happy that Jabber offers me the ability to communicate with other BeOS-users via Instant Messaging, using good and native BeOS-software, which also supports an open protocol, which makes it even _more_ appealing to me.

    “Without transports, Jabber is useless.”

    To you! As I wrote before: I’m not using Jabber for its ICQ or AIM support. And other kinds of transports, such as E-mail or IRC are cool–but not really crucial, since dedicated clients for those types of communication are mostly better suited, IMHO.

    “but considering Jabber for BeOS is the only non-free Jabber client, it ought to contribute towards keeping the Jabber transports working.”

    I don’t think that I can quite follow your logic here; I for one prefer to see Rapture improve his client, instead spending time on the server-side. I’m sure there are enough people working on it or eager to do so. OTHO: Since Jabber is open-source and anyone could write an ‘free’ beos-client, but no one has up until now, it looks to me like that that side of the coin is in need for more devs (while JabberForBeOS is great, choice is always better :-) )

    “Otherwise, we’re stuck in the “closed world” of being able to talk to only other Jabber people. That’s not good.”

    It’s good enough for me. Listen, you’re _always_ living in a closed world of _some_ kind and have to make decisions what is most important to you; e.g. use the BeOS-API and you won’t be able to program in Borland Delphi for it, use B-classes instead of plain-c , and you’re tied to Be, …

    “For $15 I want to be able to use Jabber as it was meant to be used–to be able to talk to EVERYBODY using ALL the transports.”

    Before Jabber For BeOS hit the scene a couple of days now, I only paid very little attention to Jabber or any other IM-paltform. After the news about the beta-program, I visited and read several news-entries, commentsm sites and documents. I can’t exactly pin down where or when it struck me, but I knew _before_ I purchased JfB that the transports aren’t working perfectly and one reason that they _might_ be never 100% reliable is because on the day that AOL or MS decide to change the protocols again and pump out new clients, the Jabber-folks would have to hack, reverse engineers or whatever the stuff again to make it work. If you thought that everything would work absolutely smooth (ICQ/AIM-wise) from the start, then I’m sorry; but after all I’ve heard and read, I didn’t expect it nor did I hear anyone promise it.

    So, the only reason why I’m promoting Jabber (via the list, or my review, for example) is–as stated on my page–because I like the idea and concept of an open and free IM-system; not so much because it also supports closed protocls. It’s neat, it’s probably neccessary to gain more acceptance in the world, but it also completely and absolutely irrelevant to _me_!

  15. Kart Says:

    In Response To Sascha Offe @ 01/04/2001 07:04:57 AM

    Support Jabber Transports

    Sascha, this isn’t an attack against you. I really don’t care if Jabber for BeOS is adequate for your needs. I am merely pointing out the shortcomings in Jabber and RiV’s business plan.

    > I for one prefer to see Rapture improve his
    > client, instead spending time on the server-side.

    I agree. But, JfB is the ONLY non-free, closed source Jabber client. He’s catching a free ride because of all the hard work the Jabber SERVER developers have already done. If you expect Jabber to remain useful, we MUST keep the Jabber servers working.

    A portion of the $15 should go towards jabber.org, for developing the jabber servers and transports.

    > If you thought that everything would work
    > absolutely smooth (ICQ/AIM-wise) from the
    > start, then I’m sorry; but after all I’ve
    > heard and read, I didn’t expect it nor did
    > I hear anyone promise it.

    Of course I didn’t expect the transports to work. I did my research just like you did.

    Rapture in Venice is selling a product with broken features. It’s as if he’s saying “hey, buy my car! It doesn’t have a motor, but some other guys I don’t pay are working on a motor, and when it’s done you can pay me and I’ll take the credit.”

    > the Jabber-folks would have to hack, reverse
    > engineers or whatever the stuff again to make
    > it work.

    Exactly. There is no way to support ICQ, AIM, etc without doing so. The the original jabber developers who did that work also developed jabbers own protocol, and they are still improving the servers and transports.

    Those developers give away the jabber server and several different jabber clients FOR FREE.

    Now, a new client (Jabber for BeOS) appears on the scene and starts charging money! When the servers are down or when the transports don’t work, RiV says “it’s not my fault, that’s all on the server side!”

  16. Sascha Offe Says:

    In Response To Kart @ 01/04/2001 10:51:42 AM

    Re: Support Jabber Transports

    “But, JfB is the ONLY non-free, closed source Jabber client. He’s catching a free ride because of all the hard work the Jabber SERVER developers have already done.”

    Ah, I see. So RiV simply re-compiled someone else’s open source Jabber-client and is now selling it…–or what was your point? Just because all of the other clients are free (and _none_ of them is available for BeOS, by the way) doesn’t mean that this is a law of nature. See, I don’t want to defend RiV here or his business–of course I’d have liked it if JfB was for free (and of course I hadn’t paid something in the range of 50 $ or so for it).

    “If you expect Jabber to remain useful, we MUST keep the Jabber servers working. A portion of the $15 should go towards jabber.org, for developing the jabber servers and transports.”

    I simply don’t get it: RiV develops a client and decides to make some money from his work–fine with me; and the price isn’t astronomical high either.

    Jabber is an open-source project: Great. But there is also a company behind it, Jabber.com Inc. Read Jabbercentral.com for example [1]: just recently, they licensed their services and support to a big portal site–I think they will doing quite fine without the 100-200$ that RiV’s portion might be (I doubt that many people are still spending _any_ money on commercial beos-apps [sadly :-( ]).

    [1] http://www.jabbercentral.com/news/view.php?news_id=978416275

  17. vmarks Says:

    In Response To Sascha Offe @ 01/04/2001 11:36:38 AM

    Re: Support Jabber Transports

    It would be great if RiV felt that he could donate a little of what he recieves to the developers at Jabber that make the server side plugins work.

    If he doesn’t I’ll understand. That’s the conflict of developing,
    To develop for nothing and give the product away for free.
    Some developers give the source away as well.

    (I’m not going to open up the free/Free argument here)

    If RiV feels justified charging, that’s great. I’ll continue using BeAIM unless I can convince everyone on my buddylist to use jabber… the AIM protocol keeps changing too much to trust (well, TOC works, the advanced AIM changes.)

    And yes, most folks don’t pay for Be software. I personally am holding off until I can have the whole package, everything I want.

    BeOS - yes.
    Gobe - yes.
    AbiWord - yes.
    Mp3 and multimedia - yes.
    Personal Studio and DV - yes.
    Web Browser - bezilla, net , opera. - sort of.
    Email - yes.
    Wireless ethernet - *NO* .

    I’m using freeBE now, and demos or free versions of the other software.
    When wireless ethernet becomes a reality for Be, I’ll buy official versions of everything, making donations to the ones that are free.
    Until then, Be is not the perfect solution for me.

  18. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Kart @ 01/04/2001 05:18:21 AM

    Re: [No Subject]

    There’s absolutely nothing stopping you from running your own jabber server with the latest, greatest and nonbroken transports. The Jabber protocol was built to be distributed, so you’re not boxed in by the administration of any one IM server. There are plenty of Jabber servers beyond jabber.[com|org] running the latest (stable) ICQv7-t or MSN-t, for instance.

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