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Palm buys Be Inc’s assets. Be to close by year end.

Filed under the:  department.
Posted by:Ryan on Saturday, 18 Aug, 2001 @ 4:25 PM
 
Be Inc

Palm has purchased Be, Inc for $11 million dollars. (Press Release: Palm | Be) Several articles (C|Net 1,2, ZDNet) are around the net about it, and ZDNet says that Palm has no intention of developing BeOS as a stand alone OS. That means, no more BeOS. All that possibility is going to be stuck on a small handheld screen powering a datebook. Admittedly, an impressive Palm should show up in a few years, and I will probably want one. But not as bad as I want Be (or now, Palm) to finish the QA on the almost completed, completely skinnable, BONE, OpenGL, and new media_server having, R6. This announcement is prety big, and I am sure we havent heard everything yet, but it leads pretty quickly to a conclusion that many have been trying to avoid for quite a while.


BEOS IS DEAD

What can we possibly do to keep BeOS alive? Well, in all likelyhood, nothing. Be sold for next to nothing to Palm, who are going to rip apart the best stuff ever, and use it to get a lead on the competition (which, surprise surprise, happens to be microsoft, just like in everything else.)

Maybe a letter writing campaign to palm is in order? Just start firing away about how much we want them to keep our OS alive? They could probably GPL the whole non-licensed part of the code without damaging the palm business at all. Or maybe they license it openly for use (not selling) on non-handheld devices. All of this is fairly doubtful.

Whats our best option? A group of people who license the code from Palm, and use it to continue development of the desktop OS as a GPOS, with the side effect that palm gets free maintenance of their OS development platform. This also is relatively unlikely in the current market, but could happen. In fact, I really hope it does. OS/2 found new life (sorta) in eComStation. Why can’t BeOS?

We at BeGroovy have always said we will stick around as long as BeOS does. It looks like that day may be coming much sooner than we thought. We are going to hold out as long as possible, and see what happens with the OS, before we go. Who knows, this could end up being the start of a whole new thing. I think we will have to wait and see. Thats something we have been doing for quite a while already.

What are your thoughts on this huge announcement?



69 Responses to “Palm buys Be Inc’s assets. Be to close by year end.”

  1. Digger Says:

    Here’s food for thought-

    There are a LOT of ‘dead’ OSes around:

    (1) DOS
    (2) Win 3.1
    (3) Win95
    (4) OS/2
    (5) WinNT

    All are no longer made or supported by the companies that
    originally made them.

    All still are in use today.
    All still have LOTS of software available.

    M$ is pushing win2000 and winxp (who knows how much longer
    they will support 2000.)

    IBM is pushing *nix

    Just because the original software firm doesn’t support the OS
    doesn’t mean it’s no longer useful…

    It just means a tougher battle to *keep* it useful.

    Digger

  2. H-kon Says:

    Call 2 Arms!

    I say that instead of the occasional E-mail, we start to sign some kind of petition which we all can rally around and then send to Palm to do something about the desktop version.

    I think we then should spread this petition as a newsitem as far as we can in the tech world and see how many we can sign on it, i know there are lots and lots of old Be users that would like to sign it but aren’t visiting the community sites anymore.

    Dlazlo - Clean up the old petition on I-BUG and lets get at it!

  3. DaaT Says:

    In Response To H-kon @ 08/18/2001 4:41:02 PM

    Re: Call 2 Arms!

    There are already two petitions going on right now, the urls are:

    http://beserved.teldar.com/petition.asp
    http://www.petitiononline.com/savebeos/

    Go there and sign :)

    Take care,
    DaaT

    P.S.: mmmm… weird… BeOS didn’t stop running on my machine… strange indeed…

  4. LeftTurn Says:

    In Response To DaaT @ 08/18/2001 4:48:18 PM

    Re: Call 2 Arms!

    Dang! Beat me to the punch! Follow the previously posted links and sign the Petition! This could be a critical thing!

    Oh, by the way. BeOS doesn’t appear dead on my machine. It seems to boot just fine…
    :D

  5. Anonymous Says:

    TUSL2 mobo runs BeOS well into the future…

    I just got the new Asus TUSL2-C mobo last week which will run the new Tualatin .13micron Pentium III’s and the future .13 Celeron’s.

    This board (and other Intel 815EP B-Stepping based motherboards) will insure that BeOS will be running on 2Ghz systems well into the future.

    BTW, it also runs Coppermine Pentium III’s too

    DJMaytag

  6. H-kon Says:

    In Response To LeftTurn @ 08/18/2001 4:51:35 PM

    Re: Call 2 Arms!

    God! i’ve been following the news and i haven’t even picked that up.

    EVERONE OWES IT TO THE FUTURE OF COMPUTING TO GO AND SIGN THIS PETITION AND THEN SPREAD THE WORD WHEREVER YOU CAN!

    i just posted threads at Arstechnica, HardwareCentral, Anandtech, Hostclub telling them about it. Everyone else should try to spread the words about this petition too, hope it can make the news everywhere.

  7. Naish Says:

    I have just posted my editorial

    I have had a notion kicking around in my head for a long time about how to save BeOS…

    So I have just emailed the final editorial to the news team at begroovy, I hope they will find it useful nad post it.

    If they won’t then I’ll post it to my own site http://www.coolcateditor.dk

    Michael Wulff Nielsen
    Cool Cat Editor

  8. H-kon Says:

    GO SIGN THE PETITIONS PEOPLE AND SPREAD THE WORD!!!

    This is what i have posted to Arstechnica, Hardwarecentral, Anandtech, Hostclub and i’ll try to find a few more.

    We owe it to the future of computing to spread the word about these petitions and get enough momentum so that larger news sites pick it up.

    ====
    Now that Palm bought Be.Inc, BeOS as we know it is dead.
    With Win32 and *nix being the only contenders left in the desktop market, a resurrected BeOS could change the entire way of desktop computing forever.

    I am sure that there are a lot of people who would love to see a resurrected BeOS from Palm.
    There are two petitions online that you should sign if you think Palm should do something with the desktop OS.

    http://beserved.teldar.com/petition.asp http://www.petitiononline.com/savebeos/

    Please go sign both. Spread the word about those too if you can, the more the merrier.

    If you haven’t tried it, you owe it to yourself to give it a test spin *free download everywhere*.

    Help us save it!

  9. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Naish @ 08/18/2001 5:19:44 PM

    Re: I have just posted my editorial

    From my previous post on bedevtalk:

    I would like to move all conversation regarding an open source version of BeOS to the new openbeos mailing list.

    If you would like to join, you may do so by sending email to
    openbeos-request@freelists.org with ’subscribe’ in the Subject field OR by
    logging into the Web interface.

    I have already added those who specifically asked me to. Please feel free.
    We would especially welcome any Be engineers. :-)

  10. Technix Says:

    In Response To H-kon @ 08/18/2001 5:18:08 PM

    Re: Call 2 Arms!

    Very noble indeed.

    And very rash.

    It’s like crying, “the sky is falling, the sky is falling.”

    Let’s STOP and THINK.

    There are already people in contact with Palm, as of August 16th, 2001, and Palm has been a LOT more open and communicative than Be Inc. has been in the past 2 years.

    Palm has requested a formal feedback/form indicating what we as a community want to happen, and to gather information as to the size and scope of the community.

    BeFAQS.com is currently doing this work, and will announce it soon.

    BeGroovy.com missed out on this opportunity, because it was down, for no other reason. I still see BeGroovy.com being a good focal point for discussion, essentially because of the forums, but I want everyone to know, that BeOS is NOT DEAD.

    I also want people to know that we should proceed with decorum, civility, and caution. Let’s take this one step at a time, and allow Palm to catch it’s breath, as they are just now realizing how big and active the BeOS Community is.

    By all means, relax. We have so many positive assets to bring to Palm and others, that it’s too much to list here.

  11. Technix Says:

    In Response To H-kon @ 08/18/2001 5:20:56 PM

    Re: GO SIGN THE PETITIONS PEOPLE AND SPREAD THE WORD!!!

    H-Kon, I’m a bit dissapointed.

    You’re not letting people disseminate the impact of Palm’s purchase.

    You’re not allowing people to think clearly, without first jumping on the high emotional bandwagon called open source.

    Let’s just collect our breaths, and relax. There is plenty of time after the first 72 hours, to do what is needed. But first, let’s try talking and co-operating with Palm…

  12. Technix Says:

    Nutcase, have you lost your mind?

    I thought I’d never see the day when Nutcase would shout from the rooftops that slogan above.

    I’m very disappointed.

    At the same time, I’m very glad that Palm is being open and communicative. Yes, I agree that the initial postings online (including the news articles and press releases) were negative ’sounding’, but from what I’ve heard directly from Palm, they seem to be changing their mind as they go, “Oh.. look. The BeOS Community is here, and more active than we thought…”

    Let’s stay calm and collected, ok?

  13. H-kon Says:

    In Response To Technix @ 08/18/2001 5:40:50 PM

    Re: GO SIGN THE PETITIONS PEOPLE AND SPREAD THE WORD!!!

    Disappointed?

    No, i forgot. Lets stay introverted in our own little BeOS intranet or hang out on BeShare while we watch the future of the best operating system ever to grace our computers be locked in a safe somewhere never to been seen again.

    Plenty of time is something we do not have.

  14. H-kon Says:

    In Response To Technix @ 08/18/2001 5:38:07 PM

    Re: Call 2 Arms!

    So apart from listing what we can bring to the table, do you mind explaining how Palm is going to know about this community if no one knows about it?

    There are PLENTY of people out there just waiting to sign anything to let Palm know about their presence, but the word is still only being passed around inside our own intranet.

  15. H-kon Says:

    In Response To Technix @ 08/18/2001 5:49:43 PM

    Re: Nutcase, have you lost your mind?

    I am gonna do now what i did when i started waking up the forum at NoWonder a long long time ago.

    Dang it, no one is locking the future of this OS in a safe somewhere without a fight.

    Palm needs to see a large community, and since there are thosands of people out there that are using BeOS but are never visiting either BeGroovy, BeNews, LeBuzz, they will never know what is going on.

    But i guess that you think 306 signeees (when i signed one 40 min ago) in one petition is better than what could be thousands and thousands.

    Palm might be constructive and open, but they still need to know about the potential out there.

  16. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To H-kon @ 08/18/2001 5:57:47 PM

    Re: Call 2 Arms!

    my 2 cents: Palm will give a shit about a petition where everyone just says “yeah, sure why not, give me beos”. History has proven that 920576025 people sign and only the smallest percentage of those will actually buy the product later. You do want to impress them? have people send money as a preorder to an account. 60$ for R6 by palm. in case there is no release of a BeOS including BONE/OpenGL/new mediakit within 6 months the money is returned. with THOSE signs under a petition that are backed up by money you can impress a company - in case enough people do sign…

    thies

    btw, get your ass on ICQ H-Kon, havent talked to you in a long long time ;)

  17. H-kon Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/18/2001 6:06:00 PM

    Re: Call 2 Arms!

    I there almost every day @work.

    Same UIN and everything, although it might be a little early for ya :p

  18. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To H-kon @ 08/18/2001 6:13:58 PM

    Re: Call 2 Arms!

    got vacation next week, only that I may have trouble getting out of bed early ;) Just got ICQ up and running again or I would have tried it earlier

  19. Nutcase Says:

    In Response To Technix @ 08/18/2001 5:49:43 PM

    Re: Nutcase, have you lost your mind?

    You’re “disappointed” in me? For what? For admitting the fact that BeOS is dead? You did read the article, right?

    Let me lay it out for you, since you seem to think that acting calm and rational will solve everything, and you are content to create various surveys, and tell everyone else how to handle things.

    PalmOS is a new company. It was spun off from Palm Inc, with the sole purpose of creating OS’s for palm handheld devices. Palm Inc did this because they had already spread themselves out WAY too thin, and their stock is in trouble now because of that. Buying Be was a way to give PalmOS, the company, a large amount of engineers and technology quickly. It should lead to some amazing handhelds.

    With that background, do you think palm is going to look at the 30-60 thousand of us (assuming there are that many of us left, or ever even were that many) and resume full time development of BeOS because of it? Of course not. It would be making the same mistake they made before. They wont do it. They cant even afford to do it. It would be a collossal blunder.

    Ok. So assuming Palm has business sense enough not to repeat their mistakes, what are their other options:

    1) Open Source it. Not very likely since much is licensed and cant be open sourced… not to mention that it would mean giving all the advanced stuff they bought right back to their competitors. It wont happen.

    2) Kill it. This is cheap, and effective. They may garner some bad will among a small group of enthusiasts, but we are no where near their target market, so what do they care.

    3) License it. This is the only place where BeOS stands a chance. they license it out to some company which is willing to continue the development. Palm takes royalties, but doesnt actually have to do anything… and it doesnt look bad for Palm Inc’s investors. In all likely hood, this will probably happen. Heck… it happened with OS/2.

    This brings me to my BeOS is dead point: When OS/2 was licensed, the name was changed. That is because it is no longer an IBM product. It is some other companies product, and they cant call it OS/2. This will happen with Be also. You simply can’t market BeOS after Be is out of business, unless you OWN Be. It doesnt work. Heck, Palm doesnt even own Be. They bought the IP, not the company. The company is liquidating.

    In other words, if BeOS survives, it won’t be as BeOS.

    The King is dead. Long Live the king.

  20. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Technix @ 08/18/2001 5:49:43 PM

    Re: Nutcase, have you lost your mind?

    Its hard to see any community when all of the freakin servers are (were) down:

    Begroovy
    Benews - it seems down forever
    beoscentral
    befaqs (down the other night)

    I was beginning to wonder if the entire online be community went up in smoke

    Nutcase - kill the ‘BeOS is Dead’ thingy, palm seems to be a lil more receptive- its kind of refreshing compared to the way Be acted this past year

  21. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Digger @ 08/18/2001 4:40:46 PM

    Re: Here’s food for thought-

    IBM actually pushes AIX

    small nitpicking, i know :)

    LG

  22. danielr Says:

    In Response To Nutcase @ 08/18/2001 6:29:36 PM

    Re: Nutcase, have you lost your mind?

    I agree with Nutcase on this one. BeOS, as we know it, has died. Hopefully, some version (maybe even an improved one) will survive, but it won’t be written by Be Inc. and it won’t be called ‘BeOS’.

  23. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To H-kon @ 08/18/2001 5:53:18 PM

    Re: GO SIGN THE PETITIONS PEOPLE AND SPREAD THE WORD!!!

    I have to agree with H-kon, If something is done soon, Palm will forget about the desktop operating system (better known to us as BeOS)

  24. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/18/2001 6:37:46 PM

    oh, and…

    Let’s not forget BeMail.org, if anyone here actually uses it(?) I was out email service since Wednesday..

    Speaking of which, is it just a coincidence that all these servers crashed last Wed, or was that the “Knock-Down-All-BeOS-Related-Servers” worm?

    -SirNickity
    dammit.

  25. Anonymous Says:

    Palm’s CEO replies to email !!

    His reply can be found at www.OSNews.com

  26. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Nutcase @ 08/18/2001 6:29:36 PM

    Re: What PALM may do

    PALM is in a battle to the death with MSFT. They just bought a nearly fully functional X86 Desktop OS. And they OWN it. Sure they could ignore this opportunity or they could bring every resource and advantage they can muster to keep this unique asset useful in the deathmatch that awaits them.

    I am not sure what PALM intends to do but consider how stupid it would be to ignore an X86 market that well exceeds 100 million desktops for a PDA market that has yet to reach 20 million in its entire existance.

    PALM devices survived and learned to thrive in a marketplace littered with expensive failures. They did well because of they got the design right and the software was efficient and right for the job at hand. They now have a shot at a vastly larger market on the X86 platform and they may get some traction where Be could not if they can find a way to build on their success in the PDA market.

  27. Nutcase Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/18/2001 8:16:29 PM

    Re: What PALM may do

    The best thing palm could do for microsoft is start to diversify like microsoft. Microsoft has MUCH more money than palm, and can afford their monopolies. Palm is ahead w/ the PDA’s, but needs to focus in order to stay there. If they decided to go head to head on all fronts (including the OS) then they would lose. Period. Microsoft would put them out of business. Palm needs to use the BeOS code to make PalmOS 5.0 or 6.0 so far past Microsoft’s tech that MS has no chance. They have the advantage in handhelds, and need to expand it. This means no releasing and developing an OS for the desktop. Unless….

    If palm Virally Open-Sourced BeOS, replaced the licensed code, and just helped organize and promote it a little bit, they could crush Linux AND Microsoft. Linux wouldnt be able to incorporate the Be stuff as well as the Be stuff could incorporate the linux aspects. And Microsoft wouldnt go near it, because of the viral license. And palm wouldnt have to spend too much on it, because it would be maintained by the open source peeps, as soon as palm built the dev community up.

    But that involves a lot of advance work on palms part, to replace licensed code. Of course, it would provide a large distraction for microsoft. :)

    Either way, I stand by my statement. I am not going to deny the obvious. BeOS is dead.

    That said, I also stand by my OS. I will do everything I can to ressurrect BeOS in it’s new form. I will support any moves to that effect. And I will keep reporting on all of it.

  28. CattBeMac Says:

    In Response To Digger @ 08/18/2001 4:40:46 PM

    Re: Here’s food for thought-

    Thats right!… Are we going to throw in the towel because our chips are down at the moment, is there a reason to. Let me ask everybody one thing… other than not having Bone, OpenGL (the new and improved) and Java, doesn’t BeOS 5 run just peachy? Well it works just fine for me. Yeah I would like to get my hands on that R6 just like the rest of you, but we really can’t think about that at the moment. But one thing is for sure is that we can’t let Micro$oft and anybody else beat us! Come on lets get back into this and put together a strong campaign and start climbing the charts. BeOS is too damn good to let die because the mothership has been destroyed. Lets not give up and lets fight to the end. Your computers are still working right? So don’t fret it. Helk I am about to be buying a new home for my BeOS very soon and this thing with Palm isn’t going to change my mind.

    Be or not to Be… that is the question!

  29. CattBeMac Says:

    [No Subject]

    Here is one way to spread the word… I have been going around the internet trying to search out all Be communities around the world to send the links of the petitions to anybody that has a Be website, one problem though… some of these sights are in other languages and I know one language and barely another one, so if anybody is multi-lingual, please help.

    Thanks ;)

  30. Anonymous Says:

    The predictor of the Palm buyout is back!

    First off…

    I TOLD YOU SO!

    There, now that my ego has been fed, let the flames fly. People should pay more attention to me.

    Secondly,
    Although the consumer version of the BeOS may be dead, for some reason I’m very contented with this ending. I believe there are good reasons this has happended, and good things to expect in the future. For those of you who doubt my reasoning, here are a few things that have kept me sane (well, as sane as I am) through this.

    1. Finality. We know the result. Be has been bought, we know who wants them, have an idea of why they want them, and best of all…. SOMEONE WANTS THEM.

    2. Palm didn’t just buy the technology… Sure, they now have some of the best, if not the best, OS technology around today, but they have the _brilliant_ people who put it together! Palm obviously has a graps of what they now have, and wants to further it’s development. They aren’t throwing away the last 10 years of development, they’re going use it! Someone is going to put it in consumers hands in a mass-market!

    3. We knew Be was going to be bought… it was just a matter of who. I still believe that Sony would have done horrible things to our beloved OS (what? You want to run BeOS? You’ll have to buy a playstation 20 to do that….). We know darn good and well what would have happened had M$ been the buyer. Apple either would have shelved it, or used it in a hand-held (there are rumors they’ll be bringing back a Newton-like device). Instead, it was Palm. A company that will take the technology, push it to developers, push it to consumers, and push it beyond it’s current state.

    4. The OS isn’t completely dead. Sure, you’ll probably never see another consumer release of BeOS, but you might just see the ‘PalmDE’ (Palm Developers Environment) in the near future. At any rate, I plan on signing up as a Palm developer once this comes about. There’s just too much I’m going to miss.

    5. If you’re running the BeOS now, the same computer will run the same OS 10 years from now. I’m not the richest man in the world, in fact, since I’m a student, I’m pretty damn poor. Needless to say, BeOS is my default boot OS, and it will remain that way until my AMD K6-2 is unable to boot it any longer, or if the new system I’m going to build next fall won’t run it.

    Sure, I’m dissapointed. Another promising Microsoft killer has been stamped out by the giant. Hopefully, what they have learned in the last 10 years will help Palm in their battle against the Redmond giant.

    Bottom Line: This isn’t a time to count our losses. The battle isn’t over, the front has just been moved. M$ still has a vice grip on the desktop, but we need to help Palm defend the flanks of the handheld. Don’t get pissed that BeOS may never become widly accepted (come on, you didn’t really think it would when you joined us, that’s what makes it an adventure) instead celebrate that there is a company with enough current funding to take what’s been created and the people who created it to further the fight. I’m not sure about you, but it’ll be a cold day in hell when I give up the fight and stop backing those who are supplying the ammo.

    -Bryan Varner
    bman.at.operamail.com

  31. Anonymous Says:

    Email reply from the Palm CEO

    “Dear Eugenia,
    We very much appreciate the support for BeOS. While our number one priority remains the future releases of the Palm OS, we will carefully evaluate the potential for BeOS, and even BeIA (although I understand from your note that it does not have a large following).
    Thank you and best regards,
    Carl Yankowski”

    http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=42

  32. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To H-kon @ 08/18/2001 6:03:52 PM

    Purpose of the petition in question…

    No offense, but I’d rather see anyone interested in the resurrection of the BeOS go to http://www.argo-navis.com/beos/ and fill in that questionnaire, because that will be of much more value than a “I want BeOS vote” on a petition site.

    I have more than 500 people already, and the feedback is invaluable for anyone wanting to do anything with the BeOS, so I would like you to consider this place too, even point them there from the petition sites.

    Helmar

  33. Naish Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/19/2001 05:59:43 AM

    Re: I have just posted my editorial

    Rubbish….

    Kurt may have a remarkably similiar header structure, but if you actually wrote code for Atheos you know that they are miles apart.

    Plus the fact that Atheos has nothing in common with Linux whatsoever.

    Michael Wulff Nielsen

  34. CattBeMac Says:

    In Response To Naish @ 08/19/2001 12:02:59 AM

    Re: I have just posted my editorial

    If AtheOS becomes the escape goat for BeOS users fleeing from the ship… then AtheOS is going to have to do something about that ugly GUI, sorry but that is how I feel. It’s just not what’s under the hood that is important, but what also gleems behind that nice coat of wax!

  35. Digger Says:

    One more thing to think about-

    It seems to me, at this moment in time, that it would be
    foolish for Palm, Inc. to kill BeOS.

    Why did they buy Be, Inc. in the 1st place?

    Engineers?

    No: They can get engineers from anywhere.

    Board of Directors?

    No: They’ve got their own.

    Stock?

    No: It’s nearly worthless.

    So what DID Palm buy BeOS for?

    The technology.

    It would be idiotic to kill what they just bought.
    It would be akin to buying a new car and tossing it
    in the river.

    It makes no sense to kill BeOS, or BeIA. Why bother
    buying it in the 1st place?

    Digger

  36. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/19/2001 05:59:43 AM

    Re: I have just posted my editorial

    Umm, the most similar project to what Michael describes would be The Blue OS.

    They say it’ll use the Linux kernel and XFree and will be able to use existing Linux drivers - a good idea, but it’ll still take lots of time till they’re there.

    A thought: Could it be made as responsive as BeOS, if they used OpenGL/DRI (Direct Rendering Infrastructure) for rendering not only 3D graphics but the whole GUI?

    Christian

  37. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To H-kon @ 08/18/2001 5:20:56 PM

    Re: GO SIGN THE PETITIONS PEOPLE AND SPREAD THE WORD!!!

    So what does PeterB have to say about this?

    (I can’t read the Arstechnica forums anymore. They’re full of M$ zealots. Yuck!)

  38. Eugenia Says:

    In Response To Digger @ 08/19/2001 00:20:57 AM

    Re: One more thing to think about-

    >Why did they buy Be, Inc. in the 1st place?
    >Engineers?
    >No: They can get engineers from anywhere.

    You are wrong. One of the reasons they bought Be *IS* for the engineers. Engineers who knows how to build an OS from scratch. And NO, you can’t get SUCH engineers, with so much expierience in OS technologies anywhere.
    Programmers who use VB or all they can write is ICQ clients != OS engineers.

  39. CattBeMac Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/19/2001 04:25:16 AM

    Re: What PALM may do

    Yeah but Linux is like PCs… there is different forms and there are about 10 or better PC makers as there is 10 or better Linux Makers out there, that is how both PCs and Linux reached the critical masses. The only reason MS Windows reached the masses was by force, so that doesn’t count. BeOS is kinda like the Mac (there is really only one). But as we all know BeOS is better than all the rest, now we need to get this word out to those masses!
    [Edited at 15:05 Aug 19 2001 by CattBeMac]

  40. Delija Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/18/2001 7:57:58 PM

    Re: Palm’s CEO replies to email !!

    I cant find it :-(
    Doh. I’ve found it.
    http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=42
    [Edited at 1:32 Aug 19 2001 by Delija]

  41. LeftTurn Says:

    In Response To Technix @ 08/18/2001 5:40:50 PM

    Re: GO SIGN THE PETITIONS PEOPLE AND SPREAD THE WORD!!!

    I agree everything must be cool and civil, but with something like this, Palm has to made aware up front that BeOS is not just a dead thing nobody is interested in. The more people that make a little bit of noise early on, the better.

    I do agree that there should be a central point that pleads the community’s case with Palm, but at the same time they need to know that the BeOS community is here.

    At the same time, the word also needs to be spread outside of just BeGroovy, BeNews, and BeShare for all the other BeOS users to at least make their presence felt. There is nothing wrong with that.

  42. LeftTurn Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/18/2001 10:02:56 PM

    Re: The predictor of the Palm buyout is back!

    You bring up some good points but…

    BeOS is not dead, and so far the majority of the community is not whining and crying, but trying to be constructive to work with Palm and find out if something mutual could be worked out to continue the desktop version.

    Palm is definitely making a good move to improve their market in the handheld arena. They’ve fallen behind, but they just saved themselves alot of time to catch up and surpass the competition.

    If a licensing deal were to come up for BeOS, Palm would be smart to seriously consider it, as the desktop could help their handheld market.

  43. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Digger @ 08/18/2001 4:40:46 PM

    Re: Here’s food for thought-

    The only difference of course is that all these systems had a HUUUUGE following at their heigh days.

    DOS - everyone and their dog used DOS

    Win3.1 - everyone, their dog and cat used Win3.1

    Win95 - Practically every home computer on the
    planet had this OS installed on it at one time

    OS/2 - OS/2 is still huuuge in banking, it’s not dead at all.

    WinNT - It takes a while to migrate the huge amount of NT installation to W2K.

    All of these OS entities have (had) a strong commercial company behind them. They were all money makers, not so for Be’s offering. And it should be clear by now, BeOS will only survive if it makes commercial sense to someone with deep pockets. The community has proven it is not strong or big enough to sustain it on its own.

  44. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Nutcase @ 08/18/2001 8:51:12 PM

    Re: What PALM may do

    If palm Virally Open-Sourced BeOS, replaced the licensed code, and just helped organize and promote it a little bit, they could crush Linux AND Microsoft
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~–

    Hehe, that’s complete nonsense. Do you think Microsoft will look by while this happens?! Not that it could. And I don’t know what you mean with “Virally Open-Sourced”. If you think you can crush Linux by coming up with a better Linux, you’ve already lost to Linux :-) Remember, Linux crushed BeOS before, it will happen again. Linux has reached critical mass, and is self sustaining. The only Linux crusher is the next version of Linux itself.

  45. Technix Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/18/2001 10:34:17 PM

    Re: Purpose of the petition in question…

    Along those same lines, I’ve put together a small template for anyone who wishes to contact any company that deals with BeOS.

    –start–

    Hello.

    You have likely heard by now the news of Be Inc.’s purchase by Palm Inc. I wish to inform you of the effort underway to show Palm Inc. what the BeOS Community is about, and what future we think BeOS and BeIA have, in the minds of thousands of active developers, including possibly yourself.

    It is perceived by many in the BeOS Community that Palm Inc. truly had no idea of the size and spirit of the BeOS Community itself. I think, and this is just my personal opinion, that Palm Inc. is doing a quick turn of the head, and investigating exactly what we’re about. I would like to think that it would be in Palm Inc.’s best interest to do more research in this area, and to know exactly what they have “bitten off” in their purchase, so to speak.

    A dedicated group of us in the BeOS Community has been in contact with Palm Inc. since Thursday, August 16th, 2001, and has had wonderful communication since then. Palm Inc. themselves has formally requested from us both feedback, and a report on the status of the BeOS Community. It is to this end that we have put up a webpage that will allow anyone active in BeOS to put forth their ideas and thoughts on what has happened with Be Inc. and the future of BeOS, and any other comments they may have about this important issue.

    We also urge you to consider putting up a public statement that includes your thoughts and perspective in this matter. Not only would this allow your view to be seen by thousands of people, but it was also generate additional traffic to your website, and allow the public to view your work, with the added benefit of turning a percentage of the them in future customers.

    Please consider putting up a public statement in the spirit of Good Will, and mutual respect that the BeOS Community illustrates.

    I have provided three major online petitions that might be of interest to you.

    BeFAQs.com -> http://206.231.159.58/save/
    http://beserved.teldar.com/petition.asp
    http://www.petitiononline.com/savebeos/

    Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

    Respectfully Yours,

    Chris Simmons
    Avid BeOS user.
    stinger@islandtelecom.com

    –small disclaimer–
    We’re sorry if this is overlapping previous work by someone else, but we’re trying to contact as many people on this important issue, so please accept our apologies if you receive multiple email contacts.

  46. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Nutcase @ 08/18/2001 6:29:36 PM

    Re: Nutcase, have you lost your mind?

    I agree with Nutcase. I’m not optimistic at all. ANd before everyone starts throwing rotten eggs at me please open your eyes and stop dreaming: BeOS _is_ dead. Palm won’t continue developing. I’m just as pissed off as you are, but that doesn’t stop me to accept the facts.

  47. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Naish @ 08/18/2001 5:19:44 PM

    Re: I have just posted my editorial

    There is already someone doing this, the OS is called AtheOS. It is under the GPL. It even copied Be’s header file structure.

  48. mlk Says:

    In Response To Technix @ 08/19/2001 04:35:06 AM

    Re: Purpose of the petition in question…

    To an email on the lines of ‘can I pre-order BeOS r6?’

    Dear Mike,

    Thank you for contacting Palm, Inc.

    Unfortunately, we do not have any information available regarding this
    product.

    To view the most recent press releases and announcements, please go to
    www.palm.com/pr.

    If you have further questions regarding our products or if you would
    like to place an order, please visit our website at www.palm.com or call
    1-800-881-7256.

    Sincerely,

    Anne
    Palm, Inc.

  49. mlk Says:

    In Response To Nutcase @ 08/18/2001 6:29:36 PM

    Re: Nutcase, have you lost your mind?

    I agree, well all but…

    >> They may garner some bad will among a small group of enthusiasts, but we are no where near their target market, so what do they care. <<

    I would of thought most BeOS users were arty-geeks, hence quite likly to own some form of handhed. That said, we’d still be a very small part of they target group.

    This content free message has been brought to you by the letter M and K and the number 1.

  50. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/19/2001 04:25:16 AM

    Re: What PALM may do

    The only Linux crusher is the next version of Linux itself.
    statments like this are daft, we don’t know what will happen next.

  51. mlk Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/18/2001 10:02:56 PM

    Re: The predictor of the Palm buyout is back!

    >> but you might just see the ‘PalmDE’ (Palm Developers Environment) in the near future. <<

    I’m sorry, but the idea that to develop for the PalmOS I have to install something other than MS Windows, MS VC , GCC (all ready to cross compile) and an emu to test is SILLY! Think about it for a second. You have a set of developers (no, not BeOS developers, but PalmOS developers) out there, will a PC at home, does it have alt-os Y, NO it has MS Win, and thats what they are use to. I do not think that many would be all that willing to change.

    (I’d love to see it, it’s just I don’t beleive I ever will)

    mlk

  52. Anonymous Says:

    Poor pessimists!

    I pitty everyone spouting the phrase “BeOS is dead” I really do. Give me one piece of proof that it is.

    I contacted palm about this two days ago, I got a reply from Anne who apparently thought I was a nutcase “we have no info on this product”. Rather annoyed that my formal email with many questions had gone unanswered I emailed Somsak at palm and hope to get a reply soon. I also contacted Palm’s CEO, who replied with an email much the same as Eugina’s. Basically he said that palm has been “shocked” at the amount of public and media interest there has been in BeOs. He said while PalmOS is they’re main concern right now, he is looking forward to discussing possible avenues for development of BeOS with us (the community).

    BeFAQs.com has also had permission from Palm to compile a report about what we, the community suggest Palm should do, provide them with ideas etc. Eugina has also had permission from Palm’s CEO to do this, and will announce it in a few days at http://www.osnews.com

    Palm is a FANTASTIC company. Two days after the announcement and the CEO is already interested in what we think, and *wants* to discuss it with us.

    I am cautiously optimistic about everything now. I’m sick of all the pessimists telling me that “BeOS is dead, give it up!” - Nothing has changed. We are no worse off than when Be owned BeOS and was doing nothing with it. In fact, we are now better off because Palm has taken an interest in us, and is willing to talk - something that Be never did.

    So, this is what I say. If you think BeOS is dead, then bubye! Because I personally don’t want to talk to anyone who thinks that. If you truly think BeOS is dead then you wouldn’t be here!

    I think BeGroovy is doing an exellent job at encouraging people to speak out - I applaud you for it.

    We won’t let BeOS die - the BeOS petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/savebeos is already getting close to 700 signings at the beginning of it’s 2nd day - which is exellent! - Palm can’t ignore the fact that there (quoting the CEO) appears to be significant demand for BeOS.

    So get on with your lives, keep using BeOS, sign the petitions and get in touch with Palm - email any address but say that “you wish for this message to be passed on to the senior staff, if possible the CEO” - and show Palm our support.

    Death is only the beginnning - in my mind, BeOS never died - and I’m starting to think it never will!

  53. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/18/2001 10:02:56 PM

    Re: The predictor of the Palm buyout is back!

    The only way and reason that Palm will continue ANY version of BeOS is if they think there is enough demand for it.

    BeOS as a DE for Palm, everyone says that, but seriously - PalmOS apps can be developed on ANY operating system, it’s just C code after all…PalmOS even with BeOS technology integrated in it will never equal BeOS - you won’t get any advantages in developing for Palm on BeOS than you would on Windows or Linux or whatever.

    Creating an OS just as a development environment for another OS is like trying to boil an egg in a swimming pool. It’ll take for ever, and will cost you a ridiculous price for something that can be done with fairly little effort - palm are not going to develop an OS that is only going to be used to develop for PalmOS which as I said can be done on any platform!

  54. Anonymous Says:

    BeOS User / Developer Survey

    http://www.argo-navis.com/beos/

  55. Anonymous Says:

    Palm wants to know you!

    Please fill this one in particularly, it’s the one by BeFAQ that Palm specifically asked for:

    http://www.befaqs.com

  56. CattBeMac Says:

    In Response To LeftTurn @ 08/19/2001 02:44:27 AM

    Re: The predictor of the Palm buyout is back!

    Yeah we the Be community could be some sort of test environment for these people. They give and/or sell us preview versions of the new software that will be coming out and we test it in the desktop form. Or if they add improvements to the OS we can test it in desktop form as well… What do you think?

  57. CattBeMac Says:

    In Response To mlk @ 08/19/2001 07:28:11 AM

    Re: The predictor of the Palm buyout is back!

    Well here is one thing to keep in mind… BeOS 5 Pro Edition is basically a developers dream (at least at one time anyways). But if Palm OS is going to derive from BeOS, what better Development environment than BeOS 5 Pro (or R6). It could be sold to those types who want to write Palm OS software, but also be available to the rest of us as well. BeOS would have all the tools you need to do the development. So whatever Palm is using now, they could integrate into BeOS and have all the tools they need in BeOS. It’s an idea ;)

  58. Nutcase Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/19/2001 04:25:16 AM

    Re: What PALM may do

    I said “Virally Open-Sourced” because of my views on GPLing it. I think that if it were just GPL’ed, Linux would take it and use it in Linux.

    Ideally, I would like to see a very sneaky move where it is virally opensourced (i.e. - microsoft cant steal it) yet gpl incompatible.

    That said, it would limit beos’ use of gpled code, so it may be better to gpl it.

    And as far as crushing linux, it isnt possible in a complete sense, because linux is open. And I like linux, to an extent. But if there were two open source os’s… one was BeOS, and one was Linux. All else being equal, BeOS will win. I believe the support that could be built under an opensource BeOS would quickly exceed that of linux… and linux lives and dies by the amount of people working on it / interested in it.

    BTW - Exactly when did Linux crush BeOS? I dont recall seeing that happen. And if your critical mass argument is to be believed, I assume that Linux won’t ever make it out of the sub 1% market it is in on the desktop, right? Cause Windows has definately got critical mass and is pretty self sustaining. So your own arguments could be used against you.

  59. Nutcase Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/19/2001 09:00:11 AM

    Re: Poor pessimists!

    Just to clarify…. you feel sorry for people saying BeOS is Dead, but you recognize the reason we did so in large bold letters, in order to make people stop thinking about the past and start accepting the present? And you applaud us for it?

    Seriously? Wow. I think you might be the only one besides me who read the whole article, and not just the big bold words. :P

  60. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Nutcase @ 08/19/2001 11:11:08 AM

    Re: Poor pessimists!

    That’s exactly what I meant :)

    What I actually did, was see the big bold letters and then think, it’s not like beGroovy to just say “It’s dead” there must be some more meat to the story and so read it all!

    That’s what big bold letters are for, to attract you to the whole article!

  61. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Nutcase @ 08/19/2001 11:08:16 AM

    Re: What PALM may do

    said “Virally Open-Sourced” because of my views on GPLing it. I think that if it were just GPL’ed, Linux would take it and use it in Linux.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-

    And that would be… wrong? So basically you want to use Linux / Open source stuff, but not contribute anything back. Microsoft tactics?? :)

    That said, it would limit beos’ use of gpled code, so it may be better to gpl it.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~–

    that’s why the GPL rocks. It prevents people
    from taking without giving back. However, if you still want to do this, there’s always the BSD folks, who encourage the ripping of their code (different philosophies).

    BTW - Exactly when did Linux crush BeOS? I dont recall seeing that happen.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~–

    Huh? Read the headlines! Be is dead and buried! Don’t tell me that Linux had nothing to do with it. If Linux wasn’t there in 1998 I am certain BeOS would be the ‘alternative’ OS of choice today. However, Linux had just reached critical mass and the mainstream folks suddenly fell in love with this cute little Open Source thing. Be didn’t have a chance….

    assume that Linux won’t ever make it out of the sub 1% market it is in on the desktop, right?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~—

    The desktop is still heavily dominated by Microsoft. But Linux was (and still is most likely) the ONLY Operating System that grew its market share, next to Microsoft’s offering. And don’t forget the all important server market where Linux OWNS about 30% of the WHOLE frigging market!!

    So your own arguments could be used against you.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Linux and Windows are BOTH self sustaining. BeOS wasn’t, hence it’s gone… My arguments are backed by the real world and the cold, hard, reality :)

  62. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To CattBeMac @ 08/19/2001 12:45:43 AM

    Re: What PALM may do

    But as we all know BeOS is better than all the rest, now we need to get this word out to those masses!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~—

    Yeah, too bad Be went bust! So much for being the best……

  63. Anonymous Says:

    What is death?

    It seems to me that those anxious to say, “BeOS is dead,” simply want to get along with their own life. They do not want to pump themselves up, invest a lot of time and money, and then lose it all again. A perfectly legitimate personal decision. But let others invest their time and money if they want to. It is legitimate to let them know what they may be getting into, but it’s their decision. Why try to convert the world to your religion?

  64. Anonymous Says:

    There always QNX. you know

    Get free Copy now at http://get.qnx.com/
    also check out http://www.qnxstart.com/

  65. Anonymous Says:

    re: beos is dead

    just my luck ive been using BeOS for a year now and i am so smitten with it ,then along comes palm and swallows it up chews it over and spits out the bits they dont want,dam you faceless corparations why cant they do that with windows or linux or all the other crap OS’es,just when i thought i had found the perfect alternitave to windows ,im gonna go buy a apple mac now!

  66. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Digger @ 08/19/2001 00:20:57 AM

    Re: One more thing to think about-

    Exactly!

    Don’t listen to Eugenia, Palm surely could have hired Be engineers away from Be for less than 11 million dollars. If they just wanted Be engineers, let’s see…..$11 million, and let’s say they got 50 engineers out of the deal….that’s….$220,000 each, plus the salaries they’re gonna be paying them.

    Palm didn’t buy Be for the engineers, and yes, they could have gotten engineers from anywhere. You are absolutely right.

  67. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Anonymous @ 08/19/2001 04:25:16 AM

    Re: What PALM may do

    tell that to Loki Games or Dell

  68. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To Digger @ 08/18/2001 4:40:46 PM

    Re: Here’s food for thought-

    Actually, the FUD has worked BUT OS/2 is still officially supported by IBM. They still give us fixpacks. It has outlasted many other OSes. Who is updating their DOS? Really. Please don’t spread the FUD. Because you didn’t know it was updaed doesn’t mean it’s not. We recieve very regular updates to the OS still. I agree with your comment, but because IBM is pushing 8nix doesn’t mean they’ve dropped others. We’re just not as visible.

    Thanks,

    Adam McNutt
    OS/2 and BeOS user

  69. Anonymous Says:

    In Response To CattBeMac @ 08/19/2001 12:13:51 AM

    Re: I have just posted my editorial

    What about Open tracker being ported to the AtheOS?
    I am pretty ignorant when GUI implementation but I wonder if this could be done.

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